Take 5 with Matthew Phillips

Matthew Phillips

Associate Teaching Professor of Law & Ethics, Wake Forest School of Business (’00, JD ’06)

1. How do you define success for yourself? What has helped you to be successful?

One of my favorite scholars, Deirdre McCloskey, says “Happiness is the exercise of vital powers along lines of excellence in a life affording them scope.” There’s a lot packed in there, but it means that we are really successful and happy—not just upbeat, but the real, deep kind of happy—when we are able to do something that we are really good at in a way that creates value broadly. That’s also, by the way, what Pro Humanitate means.

The most important ingredients for me are enough freedom to figure out what I’m good at and how to use those skills, and really wonderful feedback from people I trust about how to adjust to begin to reach ‘excellence.’

2. Think of a time that you faced a challenge, obstacle, or roadblock. How did you get through that and what did you learn?

My biggest shortcoming as a professional and leader is my natural lack of patience. It’s not that I don’t value patience or can’t practice it: it just isn’t a natural skill for me.

I really enjoy project-based work—special issues or tasks that get layered on top of my normal work—but that can be stressful: pressing deadlines, fast-changing strategies, new teammates. In stressful environments, since patience is a learned skill for me, I tend to forget to practice it. That causes me to come across as uncaring, and that’s a pretty sure way to lose people’s trust and enthusiasm.

When I feel that my stress level is going up, I try to address it directly, but I also look for people who are invested in the stressful project with me who I can check in with so that I know how I’m being perceived and whether I need to be more intentional about patient and empathetic approaches.

3. Who are your people (either by name or role) who help you to be successful/confident/intentional/reflective/any other descriptor you want to use? And how have they helped you?

The most important person is my wife: I can’t fake anything with her, and sometimes she can tell when I’m nervous or uncertain before I can. That means she does more than anyone else to keep me grounded and authentic.

I have a cherished colleague with whom I share a lot of values, though we have very different backgrounds and experiences: we trust each other because of our shared values and that makes it easy to think through things with the benefit of our differing perspectives.

I’ve been lucky to have several mentors at Wake Forest with whom I’ve been comfortable sharing a little bit of ambition. That’s important, particularly in a field like mine where there are not clear career pathways. It can be a pretty intimate exercise to share ideas about the kind of work you’d like to do in the future, particularly when you wouldn’t want to give anyone the impression you aren’t happy with the work you’re doing now. I think growth is really important for people just as it is for organizations, and so having people you can turn to for perspective and advice about growing is a real gift. We’re lucky to have so many senior leaders at Wake Forest who are excited to engage in those kinds of conversations.

4. How did you find your people?

I’ve found people by being careful to be in the right places. When I’ve changed jobs, it’s been really important to me to understand the teams and organizations I was joining: I wanted to be part of organizations that had long-term perspective, that valued development of their team members, and that would reward my hard work. So it makes sense that I’ve been around people with long-term perspective, growth mindset, a willingness to think about my professional development, and an interest in helping me leverage my skills and interests. If you’re looking for great mentors and trusted partners, it helps to be in a “target rich” environment with lots of trustworthy people who care about mentoring.

At the same time, I don’t think there is such a thing as a job without opportunities to learn and grow.

5. What advice would you give to Wake Forest students as they look for their people?

Human beings reflect a lot. If you are interested in somebody, they’re probably going to be interested in you. If you are committed to an organization, its people will probably be committed to you.

I’ve tried to connect with mentors who I find to be interesting people. If I walk into a leader’s office with the mindset that I want to see what I can get for myself out of that relationship, I think the leader is going to reflect my approach and, if only subconsciously, be thinking “what can I get out of this?” If I sit down with a leader with the approach that I really want to understand that person and connect in real ways, I think *that* sentiment gets reflected too. That leads not only to better mentoring, but also to a real and valuable relationship.

Commitment and loyalty works with organizations too. As Allison McWilliams says, “live where you live.” When you move into an apartment, you’ll be happier if you hang some of your favorite things on the wall and arrange the furniture to make yourself comfortable. Sure you might only be there a year, but you might as well make the most of that year. Do the same thing with organizations that you are working in. I worry about people who take a job and say, “I’m just going to do this for two years and then I’m moving on.” Start a job with the mindset that you’re going to be in that organization for a really long time, and invest accordingly: learn the culture, be a fan. I find people a lot more credible when I can tell that they believe in the organization they’re part of and are interested in long-term success, and so I’m a lot more willing to invest in their growth.